CCC’s Arrogance. Let’s Put Them Out of Business

December 23, 2008 by
Filed under: Collision Repair Industry 

After almost three weeks the rest of the industry is finally catching on to CCC’s disturbingly scummy behavior. Collision Week had an article on Friday. Today I was sent a copy of a press release from the Database Task Force. Their frustration is clear. Many people have fought long and hard to get CCC to eliminate the bumper refinish prompt. Many act surprised and shocked that CCC would reverse its decision to do the right thing and rid the industry of the opportunity for insurers to screw collision repairers. I’m surprised that everyone is so shocked. I predicted this might happen more than a year ago.

I think too many in this industry underestimate the control the insurers have on the data providers. As the press release states, CCC is now playing stupid. Essentially, they are, and will continue to ignore the cries of “Foul.” The money from insurers is just too great.

CCC claims to have almost 15,000 body shop customers, including the CompEst customers they stole when they bought out Trevethan several years ago. Imagine how much business they must have from the insurance industry. Obviously its enough that they can afford to stab repairers in the back. Estimating software is only a small part of their income. Insurers pay CCC millions on unnecessary communications software and CCC’s total loss evaluation information. CCC needs to keep their insurance customers happy. Guess where that leaves you?

The Database Task Force’s press release mentions an insurer knowing about the return of the bumper prompt several months ago. For some reason, DTF fails to reveal who that company is. What are they afraid of? I’ll tell you who it is. It’s Nationwide, the scum of the scum in the insurance industry. This is probably the bunch of turds who pressured CCC to renege on their short lived promise to do the right thing. In fact, I’m betting that Nationwide is responsible for CCC’s Indian giving. I can think of no other insurer who uses Pathways that would stoop so low. The only insurer that, in my opinion, is morally lower than Nationwide is Progressive, and they are now using Mitchell.

The truth is that all three data providers are stabbing us in the back. There has never been a better time for our industry to take the matter into our own hands and develop our own estimating system. As long as we continue to pay the big three to conspire with insurers to deprive us of our hard earned profits, we will continue to be unwilling slaves to the insurance industry.

Chris Trevethan failed miserably in his attempt to develop an independent database. I think he approached it the wrong way. The information is readily available, it just needs to be coaxed out of its hiding place. I have some well thought out ideas about how to collect all this data and put it to good use. Developing our own estimating system with an accurate and independent database of labor times is doable. But does our industry have to balls to do it without any outside influence or funding? I’m willing to help if there is enough interest from the right group of people. There is a very urgent need for a severance from current collection of crooks. Let’s kick CCC and their conspirators to the curb.

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Comments

23 Comments on CCC’s Arrogance. Let’s Put Them Out of Business

  1. Barbara Morgan on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 4:32 am
  2. I will offer my IT guy to develop an alternative to CCC-he is going to develop our own management system similiar to Mitchell ABSe so that after my 2 1/2 year contract is up with Mitchell, I will save the $500 month licensing fee.

    He has built our website from scratch which allows customers to view their vehicles being repaired via live streaming video and customers also receive automated email and voicemail updates. In fact, after the 1st of the year, we will be offering our website design (will host and license very reasonably) to other body shops who are interested in providing the “wow customer experience” to their customers. He already knows CCC inside and out so would not be an issue for him to develop an alternative with insurance info provided by you and others ready to kick CCC to the curb.

  3. Pete Ramaglia on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 5:21 am
  4. I’ve said for years ccc was an inferior prodruct.There are too many manual entries put in by ins adjusters due to the lack of and changes in the data base.Of course an excellent product for ins co’s and especially a great guessing game for adjusters,especially most of them less educated to the industry and lack of knowledge of automobiles.Of course most people connected with corp America are like the news media .They’re puppets that sit back and read teleprompters.

  5. Matt Johnson on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 7:10 am
  6. Sign me up!

  7. Dale Blankenship on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 7:19 am
  8. We looked at CCC years ago when we were adding an estimating system. CCC, even back then, was a crap in my opinion, as was the (then) distributor. I’ve missed out on opportunities to get on board with several insurers because I don’t use CCC. You know, I sleep pretty soundly not stooping to their levels. One of the insurance compaines that we talked to used ADP for their systems but DRP shops had to use CCC to be on their list. I was told point blank by one of their estimators it was beacuse CCC wrote a lower estimate. And I want to play that game? I don’t thinks so.

  9. Phil Adams on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 8:15 am
  10. I agree that a alternative estimating system should be available and would love to help create it. CCC does have a lock on the industry and has short comings and there is too much room for error.
    If you want to create a database with the estimating system I suggest looking into Linux. Linux is an open source OS and is FREE. There are thousands of programmers working with it to make it better. You will have a lot of help from programmers if you go with an open source.
    Also none of the databases mention materials and their locations. It would be a great help for shops and adjusters if the database gave you a list of foams and adhesives with their locations (not the price just where they are). This would prevent overlooked materials. After all these materials are used during the manufacturing of the vehicle and are required when restoring the vehicle to “Pre-Loss Condition”. In my opinion Linux is the answer to an independent Estimating system!

  11. Roger Walling on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 8:16 am
  12. I would like to first state that I do not repair automobile, so my thoughts may not fully realize the plight of those that do.

    My business is in the repairing of heavy trucks and when I am forced by law to negotiate with insurers, as Ma law dictates, and there is a conflict with labor times, I simply state that I am the expert on the repair of THIS vehicle, that is in MY shop, and I don’t care who will do it for less or any fictional times suggested by someone else. My prices are biased upon what I determine to be a fair charge for the repairs rendered.
    I work for, and charge the truck owner directly, without any third party interference.

    Every bodyshop owner knows that I am right in the way I conduct my business and I know what everyone is thinking that reads this sentence.
    “But you don’t repair cars and you can’t run a business with retail customers that way” (am I right with what I am thinking?)

    There is only one person that can run your business the way you want to run it. That’s you! Why are you letting someone else run it for you?

    Those of you that are dependant on insurance referrals and their demands could start slowly to regain your business with private customers that do not wish to go through their insurance company. Write them an estimate that you know will return a profit and record the results as profit per hour worked. Next check the profit on your Insurance denominated repair, per hour worked and see which pays the most profit in the least amount of time and aggravation.
    The most important fact is the profit per hour, not the profit per job.
    It is better to receive $20.00 profit per hour for 5 hours work than $150.00 Profit for 10 hours worked.

    In time, you will realize that you are receiving more profit from less work and won’t need those recommendations from the intimidators. In time you will realize how stupid it is to let someone else dictate your prices and will grow more confident to charge a fair price.

    Ps, make sure that you put your private customers first so that you will build up a cliental of satisfied customers that will return for quick, quality work.

  13. William Teschner on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 9:07 am
  14. Bravo!!!!! The same should be done for the worst program ever shoved down our throats by our “INSRANCE PARTNERS”—–A U D A T E X ——-!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. Larry Montanez on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 1:57 pm
  16. I feel that John’s statement is pretty much on target. Phil Adams hit right on the head. There needs to be a different database out there. Too many insures are influencing the database providers, does anyone remember Mitchell and their ridiculous made up times for bonding a few years ago? The industry was in an uproar. This can be an easy fix, you as the repairer, are the professional and you need to inform the consumer. The insurance company pays for the repairs you are charging for. I do not know why there is so much negotiating going on. Name some other industry where you need to negotiate so much. Insurers have been manipulating the databases for years with robbery and extortion tactics, like blend within panel but full clear, not paying 30% of base for color sand and buff, not paying for shop materials, feather edge/prime/& block and so on. We as industry have an obligation to inform the consumer that we are responsible for the repair and their safety. This is paramount more so than ever today ,due to the new construction materials and processes used to assemble vehicles. These problems did not happen overnight and we allowed this to happen and the bleeding must stop and stop now. There is too many times I see shops fall to the terms “We can get it done at one of our shops for less”! This is probably true, but you can have a steak at Peter Lugers in Brooklyn and you can get a similar steak at the Outback, both are steak but are they the same cut and prepared the same? Do they even taste the same? You get what you pay for. I have been involved in too many bad repair investigations over the past few years. And it is always the same story, the insurer totals the vehicle out, and their shop is let holding the bag. The consumer chose your shop and wants their vehicle repaired by you, not by the other guy. The insurer has no say in the matter. We as an industry need to get better at investigating the damages to the vehicle and educating the consumer. I have had much success teaching this principle to shops and they are taking control of what they have a say in: Their business and how they want it to operate and the procedures and rates they charge.

  17. Bill Fowler on Wed, 24th Dec 2008 3:36 pm
  18. I dumped CCC last week over the bumper thing and after I got one B.S. explanation after another regarding why there is no clearcoat calculation allowed for many inner panels. A guy at DEG finally clued me in that the calculation is there, but it is a manual entry that is buried in the program. Perry Mason couldn’t have found it.
    When I cancelled my contract with CCC, I told my sales rep what a bunch of lying, backstabbing bunch of whores he worked for. How does CCC fix this one? Continue to try and lie their way out of it, offer stupid explanations, or admit that they caved in to pressure from Nationwide? Which option would you be willing to forgive?
    I agree with some of the ideas presented here. Many of the guys who develop the time studies are people like us, they just don’t have too many choices in employers. I bet that they would bring their skills and knowledge to the table if they were presented an opportunity to work at a job that would allow them to do their best without someone with a different agenda and ulterior motives cracking a whip over them. Establishing an industry owned and operated database provider is an excellent plan, but for now as many people as possible dumping CCC will get not only their attention, but the other providers as well. Dump CCC, go to one of the lesser evils on a year to year basis, and hope that someone can manage to put this together. I’ll write a check and do my part, but fast, if financing is the problem.
    Pooling money to engage in a NATIONAL educational campaign would also be very beneficial. Although many of us have engaged in an educational campaign in our immediate areas, think of the people that are never reached. I have gotten a lot of mileage by simply suggesting to customers that are being steered to a more “obedient” shop that they might want to take a look at the DRP contract that the shop entered into with the insurance company. I tell them that one of two things will happen; the shop won’t show it to you or if you do see it, you won’t find the first sentence in it that is in your best interest. Most come back……but then the arguing and name calling starts.

  19. Peter Hiland on Thu, 25th Dec 2008 4:33 pm
  20. CCC ,Audatex, Mitchell, all systems have their good and bad points, Stop being a bunch of cry babies and go with the flow ,if you want to see changes in all systems , join the ASA or other groups involved with time studies etc and make a difference like March Taylor who was a pioneer in the collision industry .Many shops find CCC easier to use and read than a Audatex estimate,and there are others who are privy to Mitchell. Change is part of life,get use to it, be a participant in the process and stop your bitching.

  21. john jorges on Sat, 27th Dec 2008 9:11 am
  22. CCC is arrogant AND way overpriced

  23. Tiffany Lopez on Fri, 9th Jan 2009 7:52 am
  24. @Roger Walling – I too am a sucker for CCC. I am a customer through Comp-est. Being a new woman bodyshop owner and independant of insurance companies has not hurt me one bit. Yes start-up is slow. But my head tech is a 25 year vet in this business and he knows and tells me what ALL is needed for any job. We focus on the customer leaving with a new vehicle not a butchered vehicle. Once that car hits your lot, it doesn’t matter what rapist insurance company is paying, they have to deal with you! I go by strict OEM procedures through ALLData and I also add in the price of materials. If we all adhered to this instead of sucking insurance company drp d–k; we would all get paid.

  25. Dan on Tue, 13th Jan 2009 1:57 pm
  26. I am unable to load the press release. Would you be able to forward the same to me at my address listed above? Thank you.

  27. John Shortell on Tue, 13th Jan 2009 6:20 pm
  28. @Dan – I fixed the link. Thanks for the heads up.

  29. mike on Thu, 19th Feb 2009 12:57 pm
  30. CCC One should solve a lot of these issues.

  31. Rick Warren on Sun, 22nd Mar 2009 11:47 pm
  32. Why don’t you just REFUSE to do Insurance work period and only work on customer pay repairs, this will aloow the legitimate shops that are just trying to do the right thing for all parties to become millionaires? The majority of shops I have worked for that create all kinds of trouble are just trying to scalp the industry.

  33. Wade Ebert on Mon, 23rd Mar 2009 10:56 am
  34. Originally Posted By Rick WarrenWhy don’t you just REFUSE to do Insurance work period and only work on customer pay repairs, this will aloow the legitimate shops that are just trying to do the right thing for all parties to become millionaires? The majority of shops I have worked for that create all kinds of trouble are just trying to scalp the industry.

    See now Rick – that’s the problem. I refuse insurance work whenever an insurer wants me to work for them. The vehicle owner is the customer – period. So when an insurer wants me to be “on their list” or “part of their program” I ask them how many cars they will send me. They say “we don’t know” then I ask “well how many cars do you own and will I be repairing all of them for you?”

    Allowing a party who is outside of the contract of repair to exert control over the repairs is not only bad business – but it is generally a violation of every state’s Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Practices Act.

    So you should probably get with your state’s Attorney General and ask them for whom it is you work – cuz I’m pretty sure you will be surprised at their answer.

  35. J on Fri, 4th Sep 2009 6:57 am
  36. Just chill out, and add a couple more hours to the panel repair. They take from you on the left side, and you take back on the right side. It’s a game! You gotta play it!

  37. Roger Walling on Fri, 4th Sep 2009 9:16 am
  38. QUOTE,

    J Says:

    September 4th, 2009 at 6:57 am
    Just chill out, and add a couple more hours to the panel repair. They take from you on the left side, and you take back on the right side. It’s a game! You gotta play it!

    Ok, Jay, now that you showed the insureres how little you will accept on the left side, what happens when you get the same repair and there is no right side to steal from?

  39. Wade Ebert on Fri, 4th Sep 2009 1:04 pm
  40. Jay –

    No actually – I don’t “…gotta play it!” Nobody does.

    Nor do I “save” deductibles.

    You? Is that also part of the game you play?

  41. Rogue Adjuster on Wed, 16th Sep 2009 12:28 pm
  42. Not to mention that every time you call CCC customer support now you get the “we are experiencing unusually heavy call volume” message. I was on hold earlier this week TWICE for over an hour. The second time I just gave up.

  43. John on Fri, 18th Sep 2009 12:27 pm
  44. Why do your DRP customers get priority over your customer pay repairs ?
    Because you value your relationnship with them and you don’t want to loose the account right?
    It’s the same thing .
    You have the database because it’s a direct result of the insurance companies using them.
    So the database that has the most insurance companys, also has the most bodyshops. So who are you going to market to?
    Go ahead and dump CCC just to spite them, you’ll spend triple the time and expense trying to get your estimates to match in Mitchell or whatever ADP is now called then you will loose in those couple of tenths ..
    Then you can come back here and scream some more about how the the industry is killing your business, when it’s really your bad businnes decisions.

  45. fred on Thu, 21st Jul 2016 9:47 am
  46. this is good as comp-est is gone and CCC1 killed it we are under the thumb of the big three we started to get the CCC1 /comp-est and the program for us was crap misleading bar bones junk then they come in and say we can add that you go from 125.00 to 325.00 to have what you got for 125.00 what ass holes its crap .

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